Posted by David Pratt on 01 February 2001 at 09:51:01:

It would seem that the time has come to seriously consider setting up some sort of pensioners association and build up a fighting fund. When we have a legal single entity perhaps we could align with other groups (BA, National grid, Barclays, etc.). This alliance could then be a stronger force in getting changes made to current law.

Posted by Alan Murphy on 02 February 2001 at 15:05:58:

In Reply to: Pensioners Association posted by David Pratt on 01 February 2001 at 09:51:01:

:
: It would seem that the time has come to seriously consider setting up some sort of pensioners association and build up a fighting fund. When we have a legal single entity perhaps we could align with other groups (BA, National grid, Barclays, etc.). This alliance could then be a stronger force in getting changes made to current law.

Yes, the time is rapidly approaching when we will have to do this.

What do YOU all think about this? I welcome more comments on this subject - please post them here.

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Posted by A Palmer on 03 February 2001 at 17:09:03:

In Reply to: Re: Pensioners Association posted by Alan Murphy on 02 February 2001 at 15:05:58:

I agree in principle but wonder if we should wait until a) Barclay's case over and b) we know what the ombudsman will do re IBM.

Posted by Ray Parrott on 03 February 2001 at 23:51:15:

In Reply to: Re: Pensioners Association posted by A Palmer on 03 February 2001 at 17:09:03:

: I agree in principle but wonder if we should wait until a) Barclay's case over and b) we know what the ombudsman will do re IBM.

I concur with A. Palmer

Posted by Brian Marks on 04 February 2001 at 14:32:51:

In Reply to: Re: Pensioners Association posted by Ray Parrott on 03 February 2001 at 23:51:15:

The Barclays case is effectively over. Although the time for an
appeal has not run out, the backers of the complaint have said they will not appeal.

For those in favour of a Pensioners Association, it is not too early to discuss
what it would do. If IBM will not work with unions, and will not allow Retiree Clubs
to make collective comments, why would anyone expect them to take notice of a
an Association? If the intent is simply to spread the word, how would an association
make more progress than individuals writing letters? I can see that an association
might be useful if there were legal fees to be paid, but we are a long way from
exhausting the free challenges at the moment.

Posted by tally_ho_us on 05 February 2001 at 04:24:45:

In Reply to: Re: Pensioners Association posted by Brian Marks on 04 February 2001 at 14:32:51:

: The Barclays case is effectively over. Although the time for an
: appeal has not run out, the backers of the complaint have said they will not appeal.

: For those in favour of a Pensioners Association, it is not too early to discuss
: what it would do. If IBM will not work with unions, and will not allow Retiree Clubs
: to make collective comments, why would anyone expect them to take notice of a
: an Association? If the intent is simply to spread the word, how would an association
: make more progress than individuals writing letters? I can see that an association
: might be useful if there were legal fees to be paid, but we are a long way from
: exhausting the free challenges at the moment.

Comment: WE have found that when dealing with government it carries more weight to
have a visual group of people focused on an issue rather than indivduals. This is what we
have found anyway. As a group of people you are easier to see and it could be that you
might want to join with other groups/companies to learn from their experiences - never
hurts to find out what worked and what didn't. As a group others can see you - so to speak.
My suggestion anyway.

Posted by Una utre on 09 February 2001 at 14:45:28:

In Reply to: Re: Pensioners Association posted by Brian Marks on 04 February 2001 at 14:32:51:

I think there may be value in formalising as an association, the informal structure currently in place. However, as IBM is unlikely to take formal notice of an association, I recommend that everyone who is unhappy with IBM and the Trustee's actions
should initiate the Internal Disputes process, rather than waiting for other people's actions to succeed or fail. The procedure is open to any category of pension member.

Extract from Procedure on Internal Web site
Stage 1
You should make an application in writing to the Pensions Trust Manager at IBM UK Pensions Trust Ltd, PO Box 41, Mailpoint F3S, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire P06 3AU, for a decision. As well as setting out the nature of your disagreement with details showing why you feel aggrieved, your letter must include your full name, address, date of birth, IBM personnel number and national insurance number.

If you are a widow/widower, child or other surviving dependant of a member who has died, you should also include the member's full name, address, date of birth and national insurance number and state your relationship to the member.

If you wish, you may ask someone to represent you. Your representatives full name, address, and profession (if any) should also be included in your letter. The letter should state whether you would like correspondence about the matter to be sent to your address or your representative's address or both.

The letter MUST be signed by you or your representative.

Within two months of receiving your letter, the Pensions Trust Manager will write to you (and where applicable, your representative) setting out his decision on the matter. The decision will include references to any legislation or plan rule relied on and to your rights under Stage 2 below. If for any reason your problem cannot be decided within two months, the Pensions Trust Manager will write to you (and your representative, where applicable) explaining the reasons for the delay and will tell you the expected date for a decision.